Optimale ECC83

[vintage64]

Hi,

well, perhaps better soundstage, but ... not as dynamic! I think, there is no perfect 12AX7 at the moment, compromises have to be made.
So i guess, i'll do a GT, TungSol, RCA BP, CV4024 shootout in the future ... thanks for the CV tip!

[Thargor]

RCA5751 BP

My Favorite!

[teiki arii]

well, perhaps better soundstage, but ... not as dynamic!

I don't agree either...

[Thedude11]

Moin,

i had bought nearly any 12ax7 that was aviable as brand new some weeks ago.of course every tube should be burned in some hours before the sound is stable but unplayed you can hear the characteristics of the tube also.

12ax7 tubes i had :

EH12ax7
Ei12ax7
Tungsol12ax7
TAD ECC803s
JJ ECC803s
SED 12ax7
China 12ax7

of course there is quite a lot of NOS laying around but the pricing
is way above the those mentioned above.to the NOS i just want to mention one thing.keep away from the telefunkens they are way overpriced for the sound.in the time the teles were used the used different output transformers that were sounding darker that those these days.personally i own some but i dont like them in my system.made a shootout with the NOS tubes 5751 etc i had in stock compared to the new tubes above.the closest tube i could find with good dynamics and soundstage was the Tungsol on the 12ax7.it is of course not as good as some of my NOS favourites but it is really close and only some details are missing.

but you should never forget it is important in which circut the 12ax7 is running and in which combination.in my case there it is 1x 12ax7 and 1x 12au7

i did the same shoutout with the brand new 12au7 but to be honest there was no tube i really liked as my NOS.the best would be the Ei 12au7.details are good but the depth of soundstage is lacking quite a lot compared to NOS favs.

Gerd

[Dominik]

Hallo zusammen,

ich muss mich an dieser Stelle unbedingt mal wieder in die Diskussion "einmischen". Versucht unbedingt mal die wirklich wunderbare Röhre Amperex 7025 im Austausch mit der ECC83. Ich verwende diese seit Jahren und bin echt davon begeistert! Die 7025 hat sich in Tests als vielen anderen NOS-ECC83 überlegen erwiesen.
Sollte jemand Interesse haben, kann ich auch einige Exemplare meiner Sammlung weiterverkaufen. Für Details dazu bitte PN...

Viel Spass beim Tube-Rolling!
Dominik

[vintage64]

Hi,

teiki arii hat geschrieben:

I don't agree either...

well, that's o.k. if you like the rca bp, go for it ...
i heard it quite a long time and came back to the GT in the end.
my first impression of the rca was, wow!, what a nice and warm sound. but once in a while I found out, that it lacks dynamics, simply by switching back to the GT.

here are a few other statements, which are not quite favorable for the 5751:

5751 are not a 12AX7 and in some products will sound much less dynamic. GE 12AX7...if they are good testing ones...are quiet, have low hum due to helically wound filaments, and a nice sparkle on top.
The earlier long plate GE 12AX7 are da bomb....

I've heard so much about how much better a 5751 is, compared to a 12AX7. But my experience, in a c-j MV55, was than the 5751 (RCA, three mica) is dull and lacking in dynamics and soundstage, especially compared to a good 12AX7 (short plate Mullard, for example). What's your experience?

in a Brian Clark split-passive Eq phono preamp, 5751 I used sucked compared to AX - very flat-non-dynamic - but didn't have a variety of brands - is the CJ a power-amp?

Note that 5751 is not a true 12AX7. 5751 u=70, X7=100. Also, gm for 5751 is higher than X7 IIRC. These differences could be insignificant or very significant depending on the circuit. Bottom line is that 5751 isn't always interchangable with X7. As already stated, use whatever works for you and don't worry about the opinions of others.

5751 won't hurt anything. I gave the 5751 a shot in my Tempest but in the end I prefered the 12AX7.

5751s sound decent in CJ gear, but I have never liked them in my modified ARC SP6 or the SP8 I owned for a time. They are highly circuit and individual taste dependent.

An audio acquaintance of mine uses 5751s in his Conrad Johnson amp. Since he has extras, he lent them to me to try out in the Norh SE-9.
The RCA black plate 5751 had an annoying low-level hum, so I counted it out. From what we could tell, it sounded just a touch less bloated than the RCA gray plate 12AX7.

I said: "The 5751 is a ruggedized 12AX7"
It would be more accurate to say that the 5751 is a ruggedized dual-triode similar to the 12AX7, or "part of the 12AX7 family". The 5751 is not a true 12AX7.
© audio asylum

I think it depends on the circuit, you use the 5751 in. Today I use a combination of GT12AX7-M x 2, RCA 6SN7 GTB bp x 2 and Shuguang 300B-98 x 2 with amazing results. )):

[teiki arii]

I think it depends on the circuit, you use the 5751 in.

You are all right, it depends on system...

Today I use a combination of GT12AX7-M x 2, RCA 6SN7 GTB bp x 2 and Shuguang 300B-98 x 2 with amazing results. )):

Try TungSol 6SN7GTW or VT-231 round plates...

[vintage64]

teiki arii hat geschrieben:

Try TungSol 6SN7GTW or VT-231 round plates...

yes, i'm already hunting for them ... tube rolling never ends!

[fritzdorfer]

Wenn das Thema hießt: optimale ECC83, so dürfte ich diesen Beitrag eigentlich nicht schreiben. Aber wer eigentlich sagt, meint das Gegenteil und so trage ich noch etwas zu dem Thema bei.

Ich habe zwei Valvo ECC83 geschenkt bekommen. Gehörten einem Röhrensammler, der die Kiste fast 30 Jahre nicht mehr angepackt hatte. Zum Klangeindruck der Valvo ECC83: Sie macht alles richtig, die Räumlichkeit ist exakt, alles steht an der richtigen Stelle im Raum, auch ansonsten ist sie sehr ausgewogen. Im Vergleich zu meinen Mullard M8137 / CV4004 fehlt nur die Dreidimensinonalität. Darin sin die Mullard eben den entscheidenen Tick besser. Alles in alem also eine absolut zu empfehlende Röhre!

Viele Grüße aus Fritzdorf

Bernd

[Hannes]

blabla und schon gehts weiter... irgendwann mach ich den Tread mal neu, damit der nicht bei jedem Übergang hängt....

Hannes

[Hannes]

noch eine

[vintage64]

Hi,

teiki arii wrote:

... I am sorry but I disagree: I loved GT-12AX7-M but I think RCA5751 BP is better sound stage. ...

well, I switched to RCA5751 BP triple mica yesterday and ...
it just sounds wonderfull, makes the 300B sing !

I feel that it definitely bettered the sound compared to the GT-12AX7-M. No lack of dynamics! When I wrote that, listening of the 5751 was quite a while ago and in another circuit ...

Now it works together with RCA6SN7 GTB as driver and RCA5U4G as rectifier, perhaps a sort of symbiosis :idea:

Now I fully agree with you.

[ManfredK2]

Hallo zusammen,

gibts eine Empfehlung für eine ECC83 die einen schlanken Bass macht ? Die in meinem EAR 834P-Phono-Pre verbauten Tubes sind mir ein klein wenig zu "bassig". Die verbauten Tubes sind mit "dP" bezeichnet.

Hat wer einen Tipp ?

Grüße
Manfred

[Thargor]

Hi Manfred,

Electro Harmonix oder JAN Philips NOS. Ich glaube mich zu erinnern, dass die recht detailliert und eher schlank waren.

Wie viele gehören da rein?

Viele Grüße!

[ManfredK2]

Hi Thargor,

3 Stück der ECC83 sind verbaut.

gruß
M.

[Tom_H]

Hi Manfred,

Electro Harmonix oder JAN Philips NOS. Ich glaube mich zu erinnern, dass die recht detailliert und eher schlank waren.

Wie viele gehören da rein?

Viele Grüße!

Das kann ich bestätigen.

Leider habe ich von den beiden jeweils nur Paare und keine Trios, Manfred.

[Mel*84]

Ich habe noch jeweils ein Paar Amperex 6DJ8 -Der Überflieger- (NOS) und Haltron (NOS) zu Selbstkosten über.
Ansonsten kann ich Tom bestätigen.

Bei Bedarf: t.schachtschneider@arcor.de.

[ManfredK2]

Schade Jungs, dann muss ich mich bei 1-2-3 nach einem gematchten Trio umsehen

Gruß
M.

[Thargor]

Hi Manfred,

JAN Philips NOS habe ich hier noch einen 3-er Satz herumfliegen. Bei Interesse kann ich Dir die zur Ansicht schicken, dann kannst Du selber probieren (bei Interesse könntest Du sie auch günstig haben). --> Ggf. PM.

Viele Grüße.

[ManfredK2]

Hi Thargor,

Du hast PN

Gruß
Manfred