Shanling SCD-T 200C

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Tom_H
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Beitrag von Tom_H »

Na ihr seid ja ein nettes Raucherclübchen............... :wink:

Da muß ich mich ja nun leider Gottes einreihen...... :td: Scheint wohl so zu sein, dass HiFi Liebhaber wohl eher zu der aussterbenden Rasse der Raucher gehören......... :oops: Wäre nur mal interessant eine Statistik darüber zu lesen, ob nun eher Shanling-, Cayin- oder Xindak Besitzer zur Rauchergruppe gehören.

Bei so vielen Rauchern sollte es aber nicht so sehr schwierig sein, die Friedenspfeiffe auszupacken........

P.S. Ich rauche übrigens seit ca. 10 Jahren nicht mehr in der Wohnung. Anfangs sind wir auch immer auf den Balkon gegangen. Jetzt gehe ich in die beheizte Garage oder in den Garten........... :lol: :oops:
Ich bin eine undercover Signatur. Wer mich klickt, wird etwas lernen... ;-)
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Tubes
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Rauche seit 1980 nicht mehr :hey:
Grüße
Heiner

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Tom_H
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Beitrag von Tom_H »

Angus hat geschrieben:Rauche seit 1980 nicht mehr :hey:
selbst Schuld......... :kiff2: :yo:
Ich bin eine undercover Signatur. Wer mich klickt, wird etwas lernen... ;-)
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2285b
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Beitrag von 2285b »

noch nicht mal fumabile... :roll:
In der Musik ist RuHe entscheidend - Don Cherry
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Tom_H
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Beitrag von Tom_H »

wohl eher DEBIL(e)........ :lol:
Ich bin eine undercover Signatur. Wer mich klickt, wird etwas lernen... ;-)
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... dafür sehr amabile :beer
Grüße
Heiner

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Beitrag von 2285b »

... dafür sehr amabile
Hoilix tuebile :shock:
In der Musik ist RuHe entscheidend - Don Cherry
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Beitrag von 2285b »

Bild
In der Musik ist RuHe entscheidend - Don Cherry
Hannes
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Beitrag von Hannes »

Hi,

meine Frau und ich rauchen jetzt etwa seit 19 Jahren nicht mehr. Wir waren beide starke Raucher, 50 - 60 Zigaretten am Tag zusammen. Von der Kohle, die wir durchs aufhören gespart haben, haben wir uns eine Wohnung gekauft..... nicht ganz davon aber fast, und wohl fühlen wir uns alle, die Raucher und die Nichtraucher. Nur unsere Anlagen nicht... die werden einnikotiniert.....

Wir sind mitlerweile keine millitanten Nichtraucher mehr, wer rauchen will solls halt...

Hannes
mal sehen was hier noch so los ist.....
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Beitrag von Mel*84 »

hannes hat geschrieben:Hi,

meine Frau und ich rauchen jetzt etwa seit 19 Jahren nicht mehr. Wir waren beide starke Raucher, 50 - 60 Zigaretten am Tag zusammen. Von der Kohle, die wir durchs aufhören gespart haben, haben wir uns eine Wohnung gekauft..... nicht ganz davon aber fast, und wohl fühlen wir uns alle, die Raucher und die Nichtraucher. Nur unsere Anlagen nicht... die werden einnikotiniert.....

Wir sind mitlerweile keine millitanten Nichtraucher mehr, wer rauchen will solls halt...

Hannes
Moin Hannes!

Super, dann bleiben wir nächstes Mal etwas länger.... :wink:


Gruß
Thomas
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Beitrag von Yoda-ohne-Soda »

Mel*84 hat geschrieben:Habe mir mal nach langer Zeit wieder eine SACD gegönnt. Ja, ich kaufe auch gelegentlich NON-GOLD-CD´s...... :wink:

Stockfish Records -Closer To The Music-


Der gute Shanling hatte lauter Aussetzer und ich bin "fast" ruhig geblieben. CD in einen anderen SACD-Player gepackt (alles OK), dann in den Cayin 17A (Normalspur) und wieder ohne Aussetzer.

Nun habe ich doch den blöden Schönling beschimpfen müssen. Wie sich später raustellte, zu Unrecht.

Mir kam die glorreiche Idee nach 9 Monaten mal die Linse mit einem Q-Tipp (nur getränkt mit dest. Wasser) zu reinigen.
Ich bin wirklich ein starker Raucher........... :oops:

Was soll ich Euch sagen? Alles so, wie man es erwarten darf! :bumping:

Hätte ich nicht gedacht, dass Nikotin .................

Scheiß Raucherei! :oops:

Übrigens, tolle SACD, wobei ich wohl mehr von Allan Taylor "brauche"! :OK:
Hi Thomas,

nicht gleich in die Tonne damit, sondern ein neues Tütchen drehen. Stoned vom CD... passt :D
Gruß
Frank

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Beitrag von 2285b »

Moin,

Neuigkeiten von der Tweaking-Front für den SCD-T200 mit und ohne C

http://www.empiricalaudio.com/frmods.ht ... CDP%20Mods
The Shanling T-200 is the ONLY CDP so far that gets a Turbomod rating.
This is our reference component rating. After mods, the depth and detail
rendering rivals the best on the planet, including our own reference.
Dynamics are improved significantly for both SS (direct) and Tube outputs.
Vocals are sibilant-free and very smooth and natural, both SS and Tube
outputs. The tubed output is a bit smoother, but also a bit less dynamic
with less HF extension than the SS "direct" outputs. This player definitely
delivers the "magic" from either output though. The depth of image and
layering is unbelievable and the detail back there is super-focused.
Mod Details

The mods are applied to the power supply, DAC, output solid-state
and tube analog electronics. They do not improve the S/PDIF digital output.

1) Power supply mods - Black Gate tanks, Freds etc..
2) DAC power mods
3) Change DAC output filter caps
4) Add or upgrade Superclock2 module
5) Improve all Op-Amp HF decoupling caps
6) Replace output driver Op-Amps with high-performance types
7) Replace signal coupling caps
8 ) Improve Tube HF decoupling caps
9) Improve Tube signal coupling caps
10) Wire the tube and SS outputs with our Perfect Crystal Silver wire
11) Eliminate 4 op-amp sockets
Pricing:

Full Turbomod to stock unit (adds modded Superclock) - $2650

Turbomod to PartsconneXion level-1 mod (adds modded Superclock) - $2350

Turbomod to PartsconneXion level-1+ mod (mods to existing Superclock) - $1900

SuperTurboClock modification - adds $100

Mods to other modified units - We will quote you after examining the unit.

Please send us an email and we will arrange for payment and shipment.
Reviews:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.p ... 0&read&3&4&

"I usually don’t do reviews (actually never). After all, we all have two ears and
our own tastes. Not to mention, a review of just one piece of equipment in a
system is sometimes meaningless to someone with different associated
equipment and rooms. However, I also realize that auditions may not always be
possible and that there is some value in the third party review process. Hence,
I figured I’d review my least known component and the hardest to audition –
the Shanling SCD200 Turbomodded by Empirical Audio. To-date it’s the first
one modded by Empirical Audio, so this should be the only review, although I
suspect that will change soon.

If you want to get right to the review of the Shanling, skip the next few
paragraphs or so. My pet peeve though with reviewers is the lack of background
information on them and their system, so I’ll share a brief synopsis.

I’ve been in this hobby since I was 15 years old (now 35). I’ve seen and heard
quite a bit of equipment over those years. I regularly attend both the Stereophile
and CES shows and keep tabs on my local dealers with the latest and greatest.
Not to mention, the area audiophile group has some noteworthy members who
have pretty impressive systems. While I’m not claiming to be some audiophile
Jedi, I feel very confident in delivering an accurate review that may be helpful.
For those interested, I’ll give a quick rundown of my associated equipment.

Spendor S9 speakers – After owning these speakers for almost 2 years, I still
find no better way to sum up the S9 than Spendor's own words…"The S9 has to
be heard to appreciate the grand scale of its superbly integrated sound. Whether
you play loud or soft, music or film, the S9 has the uncanny ability to convey
the energy and emotion of the performance. The bass is rock solid, treble delicate
and airy, and the mid range captivatingly realistic. Often you'll feel you could
reach out and touch the performers."

While the last sentence is somewhat cliché, the description is pretty accurate.
In fact, the only adjective I might add would be “intoxicating.” They simply sound
like music and not a bunch of drivers. Probably the best all-around Spendor model
since the BC-1. Caveats -- likes solid state amplification or high power tube amps.
May not have the midbass hifi sounding punch some prefer. Also not as “alive” at
very low listening levels.

Conrad Johnson Premier 17LS – Closest thing you can get to the sound of the
incomparable CJ ART at less than $5000. I could live happily with other preamps
in this price range, but the combination of features, sound quality, and CJ pedigree
won me over Caveats -- need to keep cable runs short and low capacitance or the
performance drop-off from the ART and 16LS is more steep. Inverts polarity and
has a relatively high gain.

McCormack DNA.5 Rev. A Platinum Monoblocks – The guy who was modding things
before modding became hip- Steve McCormack - went all out and I have everything
done that he knows possible for now. Is it the best solid state amp??? Well, no amp
is best for all applications, but I can safely say if you have these amps you can’t be
too far from the best regardless of price. I’ve had more than one aficionado of the
venerable JC-1 amps admire these amps, and I’ve heard many stories of Levinson
and Krell amps being embarrassed in direct comparison. Music just explodes around
you with a sense of effortlessness and liquidity that transport you out of stereo
listening and into the music.

Accessories – I use a few, but the most noteworthy is the BPT 3.5. Good enough to
be considered a component, not accessory. Almost a neccessity in some environments.
Caveats – I’ve heard some owners have a hum issue and it’s not the bargain it once
was at $1400.

Room – My room is small – 12 x 14 x 8, but heavily treated and totally dedicated to just
two-channel listening. It measures pretty flat although there is a slight suck out around
63 Hz. I do get low frequency extension down to almost 25 Hz without much drop-off.

I suppose that’s enough (or too much) background. Now to the main attraction – the
Shanling.

I was intrigued with the Shanling SCD-200 with the Level 1+ mods from
Partsconnexion/Underwood soon after it came out. I usually stick with companies that
have a pedigree and have been around for awhile; however, I noted that Shanling met
ISO 9001 certification standards, which is fairly impressive and gave me some comfort.

I did a brief audition in an unfamiliar environment (not smart), and decided to buy it
since it seemed to be better than my previous redbook-only player. In hindsight, it
definitely was, but I also think I was fooled early on by my first extensive exposure to
DSD SACD recordings into believing the player sounded better than it really did.

Once I got it back into my system and played it with familiar material in redbook, I
slowly started to realize weaknesses that I missed or were masked in the brief audition.
Sibilance was a problem and the unit lacked extension at the frequency extremes. The
sound was not particularly dynamic, the soundstage was confused, and the overall
presentation was opaque. I almost thought it was my associated equipment, but
switching out the Shanling on occasion proved otherwise. In addition, there were some
quirky things about it mechanically. First, it would not read approximately 1% of my
collection. I could never put a finger on why, and apparently they have come out with a
fix, but it takes shipping it to Japan and 3 months. Also, the drive mechanism is
somewhat slow and noisy when reading a disk. When playing, it’s much quieter although
it is an open air top-loader and can be heard if your environment is otherwise silent. On
the plus side, it is very attractive and truly an aesthetic marvel compared to most CDPs.

I did have one actual malfunction that required service and a small part to be replaced.
Mind you, the customer service was excellent and turnaround was only a couple weeks.
Nevertheless, I became concerned about its long term prospects both mechanically and
sonically. I don’t want to go overboard though. Compared to what else is out there (I’m
talking strictly digital, not analog), I’d say the Level 1+ is pretty decent sonically, but
still a good bit away from the best. When the 6moons.com review came out, I was
somewhat surprised by the tremendous review, which basically inferred it was world-
class. Perhaps the plethora of poor sounding CDPs on the market makes a decent CDP
seem better than it really is. Or maybe the reviewer was fooled as I was early on. Anyway,
I knew I could do better, so I started looking for alternatives. Sound wise, the Meitner
was my favorite alternative, but a few other things about the Meitner turned me off, so
I kept searching. Gradually, I learned that my best course may be to just have the
Shanling further modified.

Steve Nugent at Empirical Audio was the guy I decided to try since he appeared to have
the background and expertise required for such a custom project. Here’s where I will stop
and give a plug to participation in local audio clubs, and, specifically, Duke Lejeune
(Audiokinesis). I probably wouldn’t have heard of Steve Nugent if Duke hadn’t sent me a
link with the interview done on Steve by Positive Feedback Online. Ironically, it was over
a year ago and had nothing to do with CDP mods. We had just been over at another club
member’s house listening to JC-1s when we realized that they just weren’t sounding right
without a preamp. Sure enough Duke later found this interview where Steve Nugent says
essentially the same thing. I was intrigued by the rest of the interview and noted that
Steve seemed to have the ability to go beyond mere parts-swapping mods. Recently, when
the issue came up with the Shanling, I retrieved this from my quickly fading memory banks
and decided to email Steve about doing this custom project. I basically gave him carte
blanche to do whatever was necessary to make it truly world class. He immediately
embraced the project and started as soon as I shipped it to him. In short, the experience
was exceptional. He kept me constantly informed and detailed each step of the process.
Overall, I believe it took him approximately 24 hours of work and a host of new parts/design
alterations. The Shanling was back with me within a matter of a couple weeks. You can go
to his website or email him to get the details, as I will just focus on the end result.

In short, all I can say is Mission Accomplished! I wanted Meitner-esque level performance,
and we are pretty much there. (Steve actually believes it’s better than the Meitner on
redbook, and he has more experience with the Meitner than me.) The Meitner does offer
balanced outputs and is probably better running direct to amps, but the Shanling is much
less expensive and more attractive. Either way, whichever is better is strictly splitting hairs,
in my opinion. The bottom line is that both are absolutely stunning. I still can’t believe how
much changed with Steve’s mods to the Shanling. Every aspect improved substantially, but
the thing that really stands out is the increased authority and dynamics. Sibilance is totally
gone and soundstaging is precise, layered, deep and wide. It’s actually quite hard to put
into words or even audiophile jargon, but anyone who’s gone to the various shows knows that
something is different when they walk into a room with a Meitner front-end. Yes, it usually
has $50,000+ of associated equipment, but so do many other rooms that don’t have that
same magic. There’s just a continuity to the sound that’s analog like. Images appear in 3
dimensions, not 2, and instruments sound like they are really being played (i.e. you can hear
fingers or prop hit an instrument with an unprecedented authority and sense of realism.)

Let’s see if I can’t break it down further using specific music as a guide. Christian Mcbride’s
CD – “Gettin’ to it” – is a fairly common audiophile reference CD. It will sound good on
almost any decent system, but there are chances for it to highlight the spectacular. For
example, the first cut includes a bass, trumpet, sax, piano and drums. Many of those are
not easy for digital to accurately reproduce without sibilance and/or lack of dynamics, control
and extension. Even fewer can provide these things at high SPLs while still preserving inner
harmonic detail. Only the elite can give you the feel of the trumpet valves being pressed
and a sense of the sound cascading from the bell of the trumpet, all the while producing
every other one of those instruments as a coherent music ensemble. It’s the combination
of dynamics, detail, control, authority, imaging and organic presence that’s so difficult, but
the twice modded Shanling delivers. The last cut is the one I most often hear at shows from
this CD. It’s strictly McBride and his bass. Again, it will sound excellent on almost any
system. However, a few things will separate the good from the great. Primarily, it boils
down to the illusion created by the sound system. Most systems will just reproduce the
sound from the specific areas of the bass. Paradoxically, it will be precise yet overall nebulous.
The spectacular system will recreate the grand scale of the entire instrument with sound
coming from every inch of the strings and discernible full decay. You sense the entire size
of the instrument – the body, neck and all – not just the strings. Dynamics and detail are
recorded excellently, but, again, hearing the pluck of the strings is different from feeling
the pluck of the strings and sensing the exactly how far they are being stretched and
reverberating. On many systems, things will sound a little too “fast” and “crisp” because
a lot of the decay, detail and nuances are being lost.

Let’s try a different CD. First Impression Music makes exceptional recordings. “Oh! That Cello”
is an XRCD that is definitely audiophile quality. Unlike McBride’s CD though, I’m sure it can
be tough on some systems. The first cut is a good test – Shenandoah. Dynamics are the key
here. You truly get a sense of why this recording was an inspiration to many early American
travelers. When the Chinese gong is struck, you should not only feel it in your gut, you
should feel as if the whole room is shaking from its foundation. Pitch definition should be
excellent with no boominess. Without proper LF extension and authority, the song will lack
much of the emotion truly possible.

While we’re on percussions, the DSD SACD sampler that comes with the Shanling has a
Robert Hohner percussion ensemble which is very impressive. It was one of the better
sounding cuts prior to Steve modding the Shanling, but now it is even more incredible.
Before, the drums were comparatively opaque sounding lacking the realistic authority of
being struck. Also, the soundstage was confused and fuzzy. Afterward, the authority and
dynamics are much more lifelike. The soundstage, in particular, is exceptionally deep,
precise and layered. In fact, it’s so sophisticated that you can discern even the smallest
of differences in depth and know exactly how the ensemble was laid out.

More examples are possible with audiophile recordings, but any good system will expose
a degree of my observations above with audiophile recordings. The hard part is
communicating how much farther in degree the custom modded Shanling takes things.
Actually, the more significant differences are notable with recordings thought not be
audiophile quality. In fact, recording quality is one of the biggest scapegoats for poor
sounding systems. The reality is that few recordings are truly horrible, unless you are
listening to a lot of pseudo top 40 stuff. True, some recordings expose sibilance and other
deficiencies worst than others, but don’t blame the messenger.

For example, Eva Cassidy and Norah Jones CDs sometimes get dinged for weak recording
quality. While not spectacular, I find them both quite acceptable. They certainly are good
enough to communicate the emotion of the songs in a fairly dynamic and detailed fashion.
They will only be irritating or fatiguing on systems with sibilance issues. Both of their
voices have a different yet similarly ethereal quality, and Norah Jones particularly floats
in a three dimensional space on the SACD version.

While on the topic of Eva Cassidy, she is quite a marvel. No one takes ownership of a
covered song like she does. “People Get Ready” from the “Songbird” CD is one track I
always enjoy no matter how many times I hear it. The last 30 seconds of this song can
be an incredible treat. (Although the recording engineer who faded out the last 5 seconds
should be shot.) Anyway, I play this cut loud. This cut and the next cut – “Oh, I Had a
Golden Thread” -- truly test a system’s ability to stay composed with both high pitched
female voices and dynamic material. I spend this kind of money on audio equipment to
specifically have this reproduced without fail, so I can truly enjoy the magnificence of
performers like Cassidy who are unfortunately dead and gone.

In short, if you like female vocals, this Shanling will deliver. I tried Jennifer Warnes, Holly
Cole, Ani Difranco, Alison Krauss, Sinead O’Conner Patricia Barber, Diana Krall, Janis Ian,
Carry Newcomer, and more including SACD and redbook versions without fail. No sibilance
and all had that ethereal 3D quality with greater ambient information too. For example,
Sinead O’Conner’s cover of “All Apologies” on the “Universal Mother” CD is spectacular.
The Shanling not only does her voice justice, it also gives you the echo and subtle spatial
cues to feel exactly the time room she was in and transports you there, similar to the
infamous Cowboy Junkies “Trinity Session”. Some CDPs may miss a lot of this info and
short change you on the experience.

Not to be sexist, I also tested male vocals, which were equally inspiring. Matthew Ryan’s
“Concussion” is quite an interesting CD whose simple recording may not work well on all
systems. The key to enjoying his work is following his somewhat haunting, snapshot
lyrical style. It’s also intriguing to hear him mix the sound of a cello, tambourine, pedal
steel, bass and electric guitar, ambient organ, harmonica and different drums and cymbals
all in the same song. He also pulls off integrating Lucinda Williams vocals with his raspy
and ornery voice in a separate song. Anyway, before the mod, his voice had a level of
sibilance and was somewhat flat. Afterward, no sibilance and a much more fulfilling,
hearty and coherent presentation. I was frankly also surprised how much more detail
was revealed. Close your lips and then quickly part them. That subtle sound is now clearly
heard where it wasn’t previously.

Greg Brown is one of my favorite male vocalists, although he can be little tough to
reproduce, especially at higher SPLs. I’ve heard it sound atrocious on quite expensive
associated gear where the CDP sabotaged everything. It wasn’t terrible before on the
Shanling, but now it is close to a night and day difference. In fact, all the improvements
I’m describing are honestly not subtle. No question anyone could hear them easily – even
non-audiophiles.

I hate hyperbole in reviews and I’m sure this is starting to sound just like such, so I guess
I should wrap this up. Hopefully, the review was helpful and may give someone comfort
who was debating whether to have similar work performed by Steve Nugent. In short, the
greatest differences were the tremendous jump in authority/dynamics, extension at both
extremes, removal of sibilance and clarified soundstaging. The combination of which can
best be described as just “magic”.

I should end by pointing out one last feature. The Shanling has 2 sets of outputs – tube
and solid state. Both were modded by Steve and my impressions of the differences are as
follows: Overall, I think I slightly prefer the SS outputs. In almost every area, they seem
just a tad better with even more authority. Both outputs stay totally composed even with
difficult material and high SPLs, but the SS gets the nod if I had to give one. The tube
outputs probably have a deeper soundstage versus the SS outputs, which are a little bit
more forward. I do think the tube outputs may add that 3rd dimension a hair better in
the midrange and the layering of the soundstage may be more sophisticated and precise.
Either way, it’s exceptional and nice to have this option.

Mechanically, I also want to point out that Steve’s mods can’t fix the unreadability of some
CDs. Again, this requires shipment to Japan and a 3 month estimated turnaround. Newer
models may not have this problem. The quirky and slow drive mechanism is also something
I decided to just live with, but should be a factor to consider.

Also, in case you are wondering, in hindsight, I should have just bought a stock Shanling
and shipped it to Steve to get modded. The Level 1+ Underwood mods can all be
superceded by Steve’s work and would have saved me money. Any other questions, feel
free to email.

Other primary recordings used: LA Four – Going Home, Jorma Kaukonen – Blue Country
Heart (DSD SACD), Willie Nelson – Stardust (SACD), FIM SACD Audiophile Reference, and
various Keb Mo, Jesse Cook, Victor Wooten, Marcus Miller, classical pieces.

Jason M.
April 2004
und noch:
http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/shanli ... t200se.htm

Upgrades Performed
* Western Electric WE396A dual triode valve replacement for line output.
* AD825 op-amp modules in DAC (Digital Analog Converter) output stage.
* Extremely low jitter, high accuracy digital master clock replacement.
* High Speed Rectifier Diodes in power supplies.
* Auricap bypass capacitors in power supply.
diesmal AD825 OPAs :roll:

CD-Puck aus massivem Aluminium:
Bild
diesen und allerlei anderes, z.T. grenzwertiges Zubehör (Klangkissen):wink:, gibt es bei:
http://www.attsaar.de/

und noch zwei Reviews, die ich nicht kannte:

http://www.realhi-fi.com/pdf/hfcreview2.pdf
http://www.realhi-fi.com/pdf/shhn0504.pdf

zum Abschluß noch eine Werksbesichtigung bei Shanling:

http://www.charismaaudio.com/factory.html

Viel Spaß beim Lesen
Axel

PS: alles natürlich teuer, außer der Werksbesichtigung :wink:
In der Musik ist RuHe entscheidend - Don Cherry
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Mel*84
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Beiträge: 5393
Registriert: Fr 15. Okt 2004, 07:29
Wohnort: 23738 Lehnsahnerhof

Beitrag von Mel*84 »

Das kommt mir vor, wie Intel versus AMD............. :wink:

Ich mache da keinen Tausch mehr, da ich mit AMD schlechte Erfahrungen gemacht habe......... :roll:
Was nützt die beste Hardware, wenn man an den Tonträgern spart!

Liebe Grüße
Thomas
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2285b
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Beiträge: 4857
Registriert: Do 14. Okt 2004, 20:04
Wohnort: Weltkulturerbe Oberes Mittelrheintal

Beitrag von 2285b »

Hast Du Deinen 200er noch?
In der Musik ist RuHe entscheidend - Don Cherry
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Mel*84
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Registriert: Fr 15. Okt 2004, 07:29
Wohnort: 23738 Lehnsahnerhof

Beitrag von Mel*84 »

2285b hat geschrieben:Hast Du Deinen 200er noch?
Yes, das ist ein guter SACD, welcher mich schlappe 1700 EURONENJ gekostet hat.

Mit Bendix und Optik ein Eye- und Hear-Catcher............
Was nützt die beste Hardware, wenn man an den Tonträgern spart!

Liebe Grüße
Thomas
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boarder
Stammgast
Stammgast
Beiträge: 306
Registriert: Mo 13. Dez 2004, 22:50

Beitrag von boarder »

2285b hat geschrieben:diesen und allerlei anderes, z.T. grenzwertiges Zubehör (Klangkissen):wink:, gibt es bei:
http://www.attsaar.de/
Ich lach mich weg, der verkauft doch wirklich Türstopper als HighEnd Gerätefüße "3-Point V2" :shock: für schlappe 229 Eur für 4 Stk :D .
Wenn ich mich nicht irre gibt es die in jedem Baumarkt für 2,99 Eur das Stück. So dreißt muss man erstmal sein :finger:

Gruss
:beer
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